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We show that the distance in total variation between $(\ U,
\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}\ U^2, \cdots, \frac{1}{\sqrt{m}}
U^m)U$ is a Haar distributed orthogonal or
symplectic matrix of size or , is bounded by
times a correction. The correction term
is explicit and holds for all , for sufficiently large. For
we obtain the bound with an
explicit constant . Our method of proof is based on an identity of
Toeplitz+Hankel determinants due to Basor and Ehrhardt, see \cite{BE}, which is
also used to compute the joint moments of the traces.

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