For a finite group , let be the intersection of the normalizers of the nilpotent residuals of the subnormal subgroups of , and let be the length of the associated upper series. Thus exactly when all these residuals are normal in . We prove that every finite soluble group satisfies , where is the Fitting height, and that if is odd or the Sylow -subgroups of are abelian. Both constants are attained at every length, the constant by -groups. Moreover, every pair with occurs as . The constant comes from primitive groups. A soluble primitive group satisfies if and only if every abelian subgroup of is cyclic. It then has Fitting height four if and only if , with cyclic, and induces the full group . We also determine when the base group of a soluble regular wreath product is the first term of the series.

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