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We prove that there is no uniform description of in terms of colored Jones polynomials for all knots, even when allowing infinitely many colors and arbitrary operations. We prove the case, using an existing cabling formula and the separation of the Conway and Kinoshita–Terasaka knots by . We develop an odd cabling formula and use a Vandermonde argument to show that for each some satellite of each of these knots is distinguished by .

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